(Photo by Guenther Schiffmann/Bongarts/Getty Images)
On behalf of KingFut.com, Safi exclusively interviews Bayern Munich legend and ex-Al Ahly coach Rainer Zobel about his time at Al Ahly, Germany’s 2018 World Cup chances and more.
It’s not everyday that you get to sit with a man who’s achieved legendary status as both footballer, and coach, specially if that career included playing alongside Franz Beckenbauer, and coaching the African Team of the Century to three back-to-back titles, which is why we jumped at the opportunity to have an exclusive sit down with Rainer Zobel.
His illustrious playing career reached fruition in the 1970’s with Bayern, in a team studded with pure legends. Teaming up with the likes of Franz Beckenbauer, Gerd Muller, and Karl-Heinz Rummenigge, it seems that three was his lucky number, as they won three consecutive Bundesliga titles in 1972,73 & 74. They followed them with an emphatic three back-to-back European Cup titles to match.
From a coaching perspective, he’s managed over 15 teams, in seven different countries, spanning three continents. His crowning achievement, was leading Al Ahly to three domestic titles in a row, between 1998 & 2000. Add two Arab Championship titles to that, and it makes for an impressive reign of five titles in three years.
We caught up with the German midfield maestro in the gorgeous Red Sea town of El Gouna, where he had spent a few years coaching the local team between 2013 and 2015.
KF: It’s been quite a while since you were last in Egypt, how has your time back home in Germany been? And how does it feel to be back?
RZ: To be back is very nice! I’m an old man now, nearing 70, so I’ve stopped football from a professional sense, I’ve got a lot of time on my hands now, which is great. It’s also great to be back here in El Gouna, as this was the best possible place for me to end my coaching career. I come back to Egypt often, and it’s always great to be here.
KF: You’ve won three consecutive titles with Al Ahly between 1998 & 2000, plus three Arab Cups, how do you reflect back on your time coaching The Red Devils?
RZ: It was a great time. Egyptian football was much stronger at the time; the players, the league, everything. Of course it’s been affected by the political situation, but still at that time Egypt was winning African Cups with a majority of local-based players. That shows you how strong the league was. It was not easy to win the league back then, there were a lot of tough teams, not just the top two. There were away league matches, different crowds, different cities.
The way people used to celebrate after winning a derby or a league was different, I’d never seen such passionate celebrations, not even in my playing career at Bayern Munich & winning European Cups! The whole city would celebrate after a title, I even found it difficult to get back home sometimes, and they’d even have to hide me from the crowds, and I only lived 1km away from the club! Great times, great memories.
KF: So how did it feel to bring such joy to millions of Al Ahly fans?
RZ: It was fantastic. I’d never experienced such joy, even in my life as a player, and even after winning three European Cups, which was great, but the thrill I found when coaching Al Ahly and winning those titles, cannot be described in words. It was the emotional highlight of my life. From the sporting side of course winning the Champions League was the top, but emotionally, it was those three titles with Al Ahly.
KF: In your opinion when coaching Al Ahly, who were the “standout” players at the time? Who could have played in Europe at that time?
RZ: Tough to answer that one, some actually did go to Europe, like Mohamed Emara & Samir Kamouna. Many more definitely had the potential like Sayed Abdel-Hafiz, Yasser Rayan and Hady Khashaba. The issue here is the mentality of many Egyptian players. It’s the concept of leaving family and friends behind, being in a different culture, a different religion, a different playing system. It’s not easy for them, and many struggled and came back.
A few years after I left Al Ahly, the manager of Wolfsburg called me to inquire about [Mohamed] Abu-Treika, I told him he’s a fantastic player, but he cannot play in Europe, not from lack of talent, but again, it’s the struggle with a different culture. So many players had the potential to go to top teams in Europe, and many still do now as well, and some are succeeding with a great mentality now like [Mohamed] Salah.
KF: Other than winning those three championships, what would you say were your memorable moments at Al Ahly?
RZ: It was definitely the relationship between the players and the coach. I was never a dictator as a coach, which made the players feel the comfort and have the courage to invite me to their homes and to go to the club with them, which was great to have this connection with them. One time celebrating after a match, [Essam] El-Hadary hugged me and said, “coach, I love you!” in not the best English of course, so I told him “I love you too Hadary,” so he said, “I love you three!”
KF: How do you the see difference in Egyptian football between then and now?
RZ: Like I told you earlier, the league was much stronger. We were playing derby games with 100 thousand people in the stands, the pressure was higher on everyone. Of course the league has been affected by the lack of spectators, you can’t have a soup without salt, same as football, the crowds are the salt and flavour of the game. On the bright side though, you still have a lot of talent here in Egypt, and many players in Europe as well, and playing regularly, which will be very good for the national team and will help you in the World Cup for sure. They are getting great experience and development in big teams which helps Egypt become a stronger team.
KF: Speaking of the World Cup, what’s your take on Egypt’s group? How would you approach the games from a coaching perspective?
RZ: It’s not an easy group of course, specially being back for the first time since 1990. The first match against Uruguay is the most important of course. If I were coach, I’d play a very strong defensive game, and focus on counter-attacking. In the first game, no team in the whole competition knows where they are in the group, so it’s very important not to lose. You’ve got fast players up front, so I would train to defend with a high line, and go for the counter.
In the second game against Russia, it will be difficult because you’re playing the crowd as well, but they are not an unbeatable team, so this match is not as important for me as the first and third games. You should go on to beat Saudi Arabia, but it will not be easy, due to the history between them. So a draw with Uruguay and a win against Saudi, and hopefully a draw between Uruguay and Russia could send Egypt through. Who knows, if they find their rhythm, and score goals and win, they can even go further in the competition. The players should know they have the chance to unite the entire country if they perform well.
KF: How do you fancy Germany’s chances? Do you think back-to-back World Cup titles is achievable?
RZ: Yes, of course I think they can win it. We have a strong team, and a strong development plan that has been going on for years. We have the players and the mentality to do it, but there are other strong teams as well. Brazil has gotten much stronger with a new team of young players, but for me the best team at the moment would be France; fantastic players all over the pitch, but you never know how it would be next summer, but for me France are favourites.
KF: Who do you expect to shine in the German team?
RZ: They should all shine, the whole team should be like a clock. The defenders should defend and the attackers should score, there cannot be one outstanding player. [Mesut] Ozil won’t be the best playmaker, and [Joshua] Kimmich won’t be the best defender, they should all work together and shine as a team. Although I think Timo Werner should be the one to watch, and for me the most important player in the whole squad is Toni Kroos.
KF: Which teams do you expect will surprise us this summer?
RZ: I hope Egypt! Maybe some other African nation like Nigeria or Senegal, maybe one from South America, but you expect them to do well with Europe. There is always a black horse or two in these tournaments, like South Korea in 2002. It all boils down to who is the best team on the day. You can be the home favourite like Brazil, and end up losing 7-1 to Germany at home! *laughs cheekily*
KF: You’ve got experience coaching in Africa, how do you evaluate its progression in the World Cup and in general?
RZ: Unfortunately, the development of Africa has been up and down. Some tournaments they perform really well and surprise, and win Junior championships and U17 World Cups, then they go back down again. There is no consistency and constant progression. I think that is due to lack of a good development structure. Other than Al Ahly, and maybe Zamalek, there aren’t many clubs in Africa that develop players well. You need a 10-year plan, or even longer. You teach football culture when kids are aged 8-16, that’s when they learn the most, and their bodies develop the most, so if you are not investing in their football education at that age, then they will not develop well. Starting at 17-18 is too late.
KF: You had a great coaching career, but also an amazing one as a player, who would you say was the best player you’ve played with?
RZ: Franz Beckenbauer without a doubt, and I’ll tell you why I said his name immediately. I saw Franz develop and play since he was a kid, he started in Bayern as a striker, in the 1966 World Cup he was a midfielder, and later on he invented the position of Libero. He could play everywhere, and everywhere he played he was the best. To me there is no Maradona or Pele or Messi or Ronaldo, because all of them can maybe play one or two positions on the pitch, but Beckenbauer could play them all! That’s why he’s the best, there is nobody else.
KF: Now that we’re talking about great players, everyone wants to know your opinion on our export; Mohamed Salah? How do you view his development and performance?
RZ: He’s doing wonderful, absolutely brilliant. In my opinion, his only mistake was going to Chelsea. It was too early, and it affected his development a little, but clearly he has a great mentality. If you take a step back and come back stronger, it means that you’ve got the right head on your shoulders. Now he’s in Liverpool and top scorer of the Premier League and performing greatly. Now he can play anywhere he wants!
KF: Finally how do you think Egypt can produce more Salahs, Hegazis and Nennys?
RZ: As I told you, the development is the most important thing. In my coaching time here, I saw quite a few players that had so much talent, but didn’t quite understand football; how to operate as a team, how to work like a clock, understanding positions, and movement. This is what you have to learn early in the development stage, that is how you become a football professional, and not just a football player, and there is a huge difference. The earlier you learn, the better, and this is the responsibility of the club and not the players.
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